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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: 78 Bus to 1Z/AHU TDI - Phase 1: Planning |
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INTRO:
I'm hoping this will get to be a nice long thread with some good pictures. I have finally decided to do this conversion. My old engine is dead. Emissions here in California tell me if I get a 1997 or earlier engine I will be exempted. TDI is the ideal powerplant for power and economy.
I'm going to have the help of my long-time mechanic to get this done. I'll do some work and get his help too. Although I'll get a great deal on his help, I'll still be paying for it, so it's extra important that I plan this well and make the right design decisions. I want to make this as simple as is possible.
So far I've read 13 Window Deluxe's posts. I've been here http://viewfromabus.blogspot.com and here http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus/
My bus currently has a 2.0l and a 6 rib trans. It has the small engine access hatch typical for Type 4 buses. I plan on a 1Z/AHU (the only TDIs sold in the USA prior to 1998), a re-geared Transaxle and cooling underneath. I want to be able to go up a hill at 75 mph and get close to 30 MPG (US) if I drive nicely. Let's see how close I can get!
GETTING STARTED:
I have a lot more ideas and questions, but to start with:
1. Angle. I know 50* is possible through Kennedy or the Vanagon diesel bellhousing. I read somewhere (but am not sure) that 15* will also work and if I did that I would not need to switch out oilpan and oilpump. Will I be OK on fitment issues at 15*? Any reasons not to do 15*?
2. Fitment of engine against fuel tank. The guy in the 2nd link above used an ALH engine and had the the vacuum pump and coolant flange hit the tank. His solution is here http://viewfromabus.blogspot.com/2009/09/fuel-tank-solved.html and I'd like to avoid it. On 13 Window Deluxe's bus, I don't seem to see those protuberances. If I stick with 1Z/AHU are these a non-issue?
3. The hole. My bus already has an access hatch for the Type4 engine. I want to be able to do the install and engine maintenance going forward without removing the engine. Can I do that with the Type4 hatch or do I really need to cut a bigger hole back there.
Thanks in advance!
Mark |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus to 1Z/AHU TDI - Phase 1: Planning |
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| markd89 wrote: | INTRO:
I'm hoping this will get to be a nice long thread with some good pictures. I have finally decided to do this conversion. My old engine is dead. Emissions here in California tell me if I get a 1997 or earlier engine I will be exempted. TDI is the ideal powerplant for power and economy.
I'm going to have the help of my long-time mechanic to get this done. I'll do some work and get his help too. Although I'll get a great deal on his help, I'll still be paying for it, so it's extra important that I plan this well and make the right design decisions. I want to make this as simple as is possible.
So far I've read 13 Window Deluxe's posts. I've been here http://viewfromabus.blogspot.com and here http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus/
My bus currently has a 2.0l and a 6 rib trans. It has the small engine access hatch typical for Type 4 buses. I plan on a 1Z/AHU (the only TDIs sold in the USA prior to 1998), a re-geared Transaxle and cooling underneath. I want to be able to go up a hill at 75 mph and get close to 30 MPG (US) if I drive nicely. Let's see how close I can get!
GETTING STARTED:
I have a lot more ideas and questions, but to start with:
1. Angle. I know 50* is possible through Kennedy or the Vanagon diesel bellhousing. I read somewhere (but am not sure) that 15* will also work and if I did that I would not need to switch out oilpan and oilpump. Will I be OK on fitment issues at 15*? Any reasons not to do 15*?
2. Fitment of engine against fuel tank. The guy in the 2nd link above used an ALH engine and had the the vacuum pump and coolant flange hit the tank. His solution is here http://viewfromabus.blogspot.com/2009/09/fuel-tank-solved.html and I'd like to avoid it. On 13 Window Deluxe's bus, I don't seem to see those protuberances. If I stick with 1Z/AHU are these a non-issue?
3. The hole. My bus already has an access hatch for the Type4 engine. I want to be able to do the install and engine maintenance going forward without removing the engine. Can I do that with the Type4 hatch or do I really need to cut a bigger hole back there.
Thanks in advance!
Mark |
1 I would say run the engine at 15 degrees as you wont have to swap out the sump oilpan etc which are rare in the states ive heard? and the hydro tappets will much be happier at 15 degrees
2 the 1z/ahu has the vac pump where the distributor is on a gas model so fits better my ahu engine, i had to have a very tight milled 90degree elbow on the rear of the head to clear the fuel tank shelf but that was at 50 degrees i would say you would still need a tight elbow at 15degrees as my 1z 15degree setup in my split is still close to the tank (check out my split thread for a photo)
3 the type4 hatch should be reasonable it would be arkward swapping glowplugs, pulling injectors on on number 1 and 2 cylinders and head gaskets etc would be almost impossible in the van, more work to put larger hatch in but it will save you time in the future
hope this helps
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi
Last edited by 13 window deluxe on Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus to 1Z/AHU TDI - Phase 1: Planning |
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| 13 window deluxe wrote: |
1 I would say run the engine at 15 degrees as you wont have to sawp out the sump oilpan etc which are in the states ive heard? and the hydro tappets will be happier at 15 degrees
2 the 1z/ahu has the vac pump where the distributor is on a gas model so fits better my ahu engine had to have a very tight milled 90degree elbow on the rear of the head to clear the fuel tank shelf but that was at 50 degrees i would say you would still need a tight elbow at 15degrees as my 1z 15degree setup in my split is still close to the tank
3 the type4 hatch should be reasonable it would be arkward swapping glowplugs, pulling injectors on on number 1 and 2 cylinders and head gaskets etc would be almost impossible in the van, more work to put larger hatch in but it will save you time in the future
hope this helps |
Thanks very much, 13 Window. That is real helpful.
Engine mounts..
I plan on doing a nice job with the main engine mounts. The front mounting I'm not sure about yet...
I know on your baywindow bus using the the Vanagon bellhousing that you don't attach the bellhousing to the bus itself. I also know that on the Vanagon Diesel, there is a much heavier duty trans mount on the nose of the trans.
I'm wondering if you saw any issues with the front trans mount using the stock baywindow mounting. I'm also wondering if I keep the bellhousing mount on mine if I'll be too much vibration into the bus.
I appreciate your advice.
Thanks,
Mark |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: |
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use the stock front mount and remove the gearbox middle hanger under the fuel tank shelf as the mounts are to stiff and will cause vibration through the body, then make a new set of mounting brackets for the engine using 1/4 plate and mount on a engine carrier bar with audi hydro engine mounting rubbers this is what ive done with my split and vibration is low
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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rabbitboy
Padawan
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 94
Location: Worcester
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 1Z in my 77 bay fitted at 15' and it was not too much trouble to get the head off with the standard hatch hole in place. It is awkward to put oil in though. I tip it through the breather hole.  |
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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| rabbitboy wrote: | | I have a 1Z in my 77 bay fitted at 15' and it was not too much trouble to get the head off with the standard hatch hole in place. It is awkward to put oil in though. I tip it through the breather hole. |
Thanks, that's great to know and saves me from doing the cutting :-)
Edit: Found your thread with pics. Looks great!
Thanks,
Mark
Last edited by markd89 on Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| 13 window deluxe wrote: | | use the stock front mount and remove the gearbox middle hanger under the fuel tank shelf as the mounts are to stiff and will cause vibration through the body, then make a new set of mounting brackets for the engine using 1/4 plate and mount on a engine carrier bar with audi hydro engine mounting rubbers this is what ive done with my split and vibration is low |
Thanks 13 Window!
The carrier bar should be fabricated from scratch and the attachment points on the bus should be reinforced, right? (i.e. I can't use any part of the Type4 carrier bar)
Thanks,
Mark |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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the carrier bar on my late bay was built from scratch and was mounted on the original engine carrier holes in the chassis legs
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help so far guys :-)
Shopping progress...
I ordered the kit from Kennedy today.
I got the hi torque starter, (edit) Stage 2 273 lb/feet pressure plate and stock Sachs clutch disc.
I figure I may do mild mods to the engine to take it from 90-110 hp or so. I'm not planning on doing more than that...
Mark
Last edited by markd89 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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13 Window deluxe,
I think I'm going to get a thrashed gasser shortblock as you did to help mockup the mounts.
Will any 4 cyl VW engine from the 70's onwards have the same mounting bolt holes as the TDI or are there specific engine numbers I should look for?
Thanks again!
Mark |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| markd89 wrote: | 13 Window deluxe,
I think I'm going to get a thrashed gasser shortblock as you did to help mockup the mounts.
Will any 4 cyl VW engine from the 70's onwards have the same mounting bolt holes as the TDI or are there specific engine numbers I should look for?
Thanks again!
Mark |
the bottom ends are all about the same (check sump shapes as they can differ from chassis to chassis) but 4cylinder tdi's and 2.0litre golf engines are 16mm taller at the top of the block so take this in to account when mounting the motor dont mount it to high
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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markd89
Initiate Jedi
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 13 window deluxe wrote: | | the bottom ends are all about the same (check sump shapes as they can differ from chassis to chassis) but 4cylinder tdi's and 2.0litre golf engines are 16mm taller at the top of the block so take this in to account when mounting the motor dont mount it to high |
What I was thinking of doing to get the height right was to leave the rear trans mount in-place during the mockup and bolt the trash shortblock to the trans in that position. We'd then fabricate the mounts to attach to the trash engine.
When mounting the "real" engine, I'm leaving out the rear trans mount per your advice but the engine/trans would be held at the same height as before.
Does that make sense?
Thanks again,
Mark |
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