need help urgently! plug'n'play starter: diesel conversion

[trev]

surely someone has cracked this problem before? Surely?

has anyone discovered a "plug'n'play" starter that'll work with a diesel conversion on a KEP adapter plate?

I need to know urgently as I'm on a deadline to get the van finished!

I'm hoping beyond hope someone will just tell me to go to the scrappy and bag a starter from "x" car and pop it in. Please please please?

I thought I had it cracked when I discovered a Skoda Felicia diesel starter actually fit the gearbox and it looked like it would work with the 1800 transmission. now have a 2-litre box fitted in place of the original 1800 box. I remember reading somewhere that the 2-litre box has a deeper bellhousing than an 1800 box. Would swapping the bellhousings allow the starter to be closer to the flywheel and maybe engage? As it is, the pinion spins freely on the key, it's not engaging the flywheel at all

[StuartC]

I, too was caught in a time crunch and had to go with the Hi-Torque Starter from VW Heritage. http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Starter-Motor-Hi-Torque-Plain-T1-68-T2-75-12v-Geared-Type-AC911001_act_shop.product_pID_208697_lang_EN_country_GB.htm?crumbStartPage=1

Now I see the price I think it would be difficult for me to justify getting another

[trev]

holy moly! that's not cheap!

thanks for the tip

[StuartC]

How about this:-

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/917/category/139

[StuartC]

or this:-

http://www.amp-starters.co.uk/Automotive-Starter-Motors/Volkswagen-Starters/c-1-599-3461/

[haveacamper]

Trev, did you ever find a solution to this???

i have a 091 paired with a porsceh engine and having some hard start issues - which may be the starter.

i have been advised by the a person at vwheritage not to waste my money on the hi-torque starter. the person i spoke to runs a 2276cc type 1 engine and opts for the automatic transmission starter motor:

http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Starter-motor-Auto-T1-2-3-4-OUTRIGHT-003911023BX_act_shop.product_pID_65840_lang_EN_country_GB.htm

its a 0.8hp unit rather than the 0.7hp. he also runs a 091 box and apparently has no issues.

StuartC can you confirm that you have a hi-torque unit from vwheritage as the person i spoke to sad that it is only for <75 models so not the 091 box...

unfortunately i the porsche starter motor is a 1.5hp unit so i'm still a way short if I go for the automotic transmission starter (0.8hp)

NaFe
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1972 Dormobile not so mobile at the moment

[trev]

Hi NaFe

I certainly did find a solution to the problem:

I made this adapter plate:



and after a little on-site clearancing to get it in beside the bellhousing, the B4 Passat TDI (1Z) starter bolts right up. It's a 2kW motor so plenty strong to turn the engine.



that's an 091 gearbox with the extra offset on the bellhousing with the B4 Passat (1993-1996 ish) diesel starter motor and a home brew adapter plate. I can publish the drawing for the plate here if you want to have a plate made. As mentioned, the nice machined part in the first picture needed some adjustment to one corner to allow it to clear the casing of the gearbox but TBH, it's more than capable of starting a high-compression diesel engine within a second or two of cranking so it would have no problem with a Porsche engine. The Passat starter has 10 teeth whereas all the air-cooled starters have 9 teeth but it makes no difference, there has been no grinding or skipping of teeth etc. It's a geared motor too so would be considered "high torque". Probably more so than the expensive upgrade motors for sale in the aftermarket. You'll probably get the Passat motor for around the £50 mark from a breaker or someone on an enthusiasts forum. The Passat motor is also self-supporting so doesn't rely on the brass bush in the bellhousing for support.

I tried the air-cooled automatic starter and I while it bolts up to the 091 box, the pinion doesn't get thrown out enough to reach the flywheel. Would probably be fine on a non-091 air-cooled gearbox with less offset on the bellhousing.

[haveacamper]

looks like you have a good solution there. out of interest, how did you know whether the starter had enough throuw before you bought it and made the plate up.

about the difference in the number of teeth, then there must be a level of misalignment? ater all you have a tooth every 36 degrees instead of every 39degrees. maybe the engine doesnt turn over enough enough to reach a clash.

look like a promising solution though!!

thanks for the details and pics
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1972 Dormobile not so mobile at the moment

[trev]

I had a selection of VAG starters here to try out. I also did a bit of googling about it and it narrowed down the search. The amount of throw in the pinion is pretty much the same on all the starters, about the length of the pinion gear itself, 15mm or so. What the Passat starter has that the others didn't is a very long "nose" as in the amount of the starter from the mounting face forward. The problem with the non-091 air-cooled starters is that the "nose" is too short and the pinion doesn't even reach the flywheel. After doing a bit of measuring up I determined the thickness the adapter plate had to be to position the Passat pinion in the right place.

re the teeth, I have had to crank the engine for prolonged periods, definitely a few revolutions of the engine, it hasn't skipped a tooth or bound up or anything. There must be enough "slop" between the teeth to allow for the minor difference. I can assure you, it works fine