Mk1 Golf GTI in a early bay?

[sburford]

Hi,

I hope this is in the right place if not please move it mods....
Im new to the forum and have a question for you all as i cant seem to find the answers im looking for from just lurking and reading old posts...

I have a 79 golf gti (1.8 8v rebored to 2.1l with fast cams etc) which have have had sat in my garage for about 5 years now not using it. I also am thinking of buying an early bay 69, 70 something like that and want to know if i can use my golf engine in it?

As i understand it i need my existing engine, with a T25 diesel bellhousing and the existing 1600 bay gearbox. T25 sump and oil pickup and just mount the engine at a cranky angle to fit? then use a mk3 post 96 deisel start motor in it... is this right? or i could buy a kennedy engineering? adapter and use my existing engine, bellhousing and bay gearbox... is this right?

In both instances i can use the golf rad and oil cooler mounted underneath the bay for cooling?

Im really looking for a how-to style guide or detailed info on parts needed and which route would be the most straightforward to do? do people have much experience with this... dont really wanna buy extra engines as i have this one sitting around not being used...
Can i also use the golf braking system to improve the drum brakes?

Mnay thanks for any help you can offer...

shaun

[72panelvan]

sounds like you've already done some good reading.

yeah you've got two choices with mating the gearbox to engine

a) a diesel bellhousing from a T25 (with the associated engine parts to accomodate the slant, adding to your list mounts and exhaust manifolds to make slightly lighter work of it)

b) Kennedy engineering - allows you to retain the engine at the factory angle (makes it easier for parts) - clearence isn't an issue in a bay engine wise (so no need for the wild t25 slant), but starter clearance can be tight - i've got a tdi starter and I've had to notch the gearbox cross member metal work slightly. The T25 bellhousing sits the starter right at the top so clearance is even more of an issue.

Cooling wise I'd go bigger than the standard rad. if it's mounted underneath a thin rad would be sensible too - air's less likely to slow and become stagnant as it flows through. rad's in french cars seem to be extremely thin from what I've seen.

[jp]

Hi there

Have you clicked on the Dummies guide top right of the site.. might be worth a read though you do sound as if you've done yer research.

The person that convinced me that an engine conversion was the way to go (Jace) runs a Gti engine in his early bay, he originally ran a Scirroco engine which I'm guessing is pretty much the same as yours (now runs a 2ltr mk3 gti) There are a few pics HERE he is using an adapter plate from GB engineering unfortunately I don't believe they make them anymore... but as you say the T25 bell mounted to yer 1600 box with sump and pick-up should do just fine

I'm sure others will be along with more info in a bit as there are a few out there using Gti engines.

As for brakes you can always fit late bay discs and servo, or I believe Mr Futbus will be able to sort summut out... not sure using the Golf brakes is a trodden path so maybe best avoided unless you want to be ground breaking Personally I went for Porsche stuff but a lot of hassle and not cheap..but does have the element.
_________________
1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT

[sburford]

so if i use the kennedy it maintains the golf bellhousing, clutch etc then? or do you still need the t25 bellhousing? would i need a t25 clutch too or use the existing bay one? also some have mentioned about a bug clutch cable connector welded on... is this necessary still?

as for cost any ideas for what all the part needed would be assuming i have all engine bits from golf already?

cheers

[jp]

If you use kenedy you will use the Earlybay gearbox and bellhousing with the kenedy adapter bolted to it then yer Golf engine bolted to that. The T25 Diesel bell housing can be used instead of the ken adapter and replace the early bay bellhousing but then you get the angle.

Not sure what the deal is on the clutch front on my Ford set up I use a T25 clutch plate and the clutch cable etc.. is all standard bay. I know with other kits you get a new input shaft which allows you to use the standard clutch that comes on yer engine.

As for price the adapter will be yer biggest cost a few on here have bought kenedy stuff so should be able to give you a price then you got radiator, pipework steel for engine mount (cradle) and rad mount (cradle/scoop) zorst can possibly be moded from what you have or visit to Kwikfits skip Depends if yer on a tight budget really. can be done quite cheaply the skills are normally the main consideration... welding, wiring, plumbing, time
_________________
1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT

[richbaker78]

not a lot to add to the above really as its all been covered....but on the subject of brakes....

If i were you i would go for a 70-71 early bay...they look the same bodily as the 67-69s but already come with front discs (these vans are easily spotted as they have the smaller 5x112 PCD wheels rather than the 5x205.

Depending on the power of your engine im guessing sub 150bhp? these would be adequate for the time being until you have your engine in and have got used to how good/bad the brakes are. the 5x112 will also give you cheaper upgrade options and a huge range of Alloys should you wish to go that route wheras the 205s will limit you.

[sburford]

The engine is putting out around 150bhp with the mods so i was concerned about having all round drums...

I think the engine would be a good match... loads of low down torque and a mad cam and ported head which pulls very hard when pushed to about 7.5k... the bay box and clutch can handle that?

Im guessing to add discs i just need replacement hubs, calipers and discs from a 1971 then... the brake lines are there and can be reused?

[richbaker78]

[sburford]

ah i see... that would save alot of effort in changing over to discs... i have my eye on a 69 bay but if it falls through then that would be a good plan...

ive emailed kennedy and a kit with postage is 340quid as present. and uses the bay clutch if anyone is interested.... looks a simplish conversion.... rads from something french is also a good idea... thinner and available cheap from ebay...

how about wiring? i know the kjet is simple but has anyone got a guide or info on how to wire it into the existing loom? is it a simple match it up exercise or is there a bit of head straching going on?

cheers,

[sburford]

I thought id post a quick update to my plans after alot of reading this site and helpful advice given here from you knowledgable lot...

ive bought a 68' bay in good nick but totally standard and no interior to talk of and i plan to fit my mk1 golf gti engine using a kennedy adapter i have just ordered from the statesand keep the existing bellhousing, clutch and gearbox from the bay. The engine mounts will be made by me (and not break ) out of 20mm box steel and using a ladder type idea member jase did (from what i can tell from the pics - anyone with any more of the mounts would be gratefully received)...

I plan to use 28mm copper piping for the rad to be mounted underneath the van (rubber at each end) and use 2 golf gti rads (i have one already) in series to deal with the cooling. Golf heater matrix in a custom fibreglass/carbon fibre box in the front into the existing heating vents under the cab and fed from 15mm copper with foam insulation to minimuse heat loss...

As for braking, i prob as advised got a 71 bay to have discs as standard, but this 68' was in good nick and had 12month MOT and the standard 71' discs prob werent up to it so i will prob. use but not completely decided yet use futbus wide-5 kit to put discs up front. On this has anyone used this kit? can standard steel wheels be kept and any other parts needed, i.e. new master cylinder, servo (i have one from the golf if needed and fit?)

interior i have basic ideas, but i think this will keep me busy and take up alot of my budget so they can sit on the back burner for a while until it runs... Anyone who is particularly proud of thier interior, id love some pics / layout /dimensions etc. (looking for a DIY job so the lovely campershak ones are out )

Have i missed anything? bits, bobs or glaring mistakes?

cheers,

Shaun.

[ElusiveStranger]

[richbaker78]

excellent sounds like a good plan to me...although getting that power down through standard steels is going to be amusing...especially in the wet :-)

Make sure you kick of a build thread in Kool Rides. I will be going to help Jace out in the next month or so with some work on his van so can find out what he did with his engine mounts. From memory i think they are standard mounts located on the ladder bar. BUt use of these will obviously depend on the angle of your engine - his engine is upright so he was able to use the mounts.

Good luck with the project...look forward to seeing it develop.