1Y 1.9 diesel into '74 bay

[trev]

I've been registered here for years but haven't really done much. I have a '74 bay with a 1800 type4 engine, a KEP VW inline 4 adapter kit and a 1Y engine (mechanical non-immobiliser pump) all sitting here waiting to do something with them.

I currently also have a gutted 1.8 inline petrol engine, sump and head ready to use to mock up engine mounts. Easier to work with the relatively light empty petrol case than a fully assembled diesel engine... The plan would be to use the 15 degree mounting points on the KEP kit with the stock sump. I'm also keeping an eye out for a 2-litre petrol gearbox. I reckon I could fit some taller rear tyres too. Currently 195/80R14s.

The van is as yet unmodified. It has the type4 access hatch above the engine bay. Aside from having to fabricate the engine mount brackets and sorting somewhere for the radiator, what are the major difficulties with this swap?
Coolant flange out of the head versus tank?
Starter motor capable of cranking a diesel but mounted to the lawn mower box?

I have searched and found useful info on 1.6TD or 1Z engines but nothing directly about the 1Y. All advice appreciated.

[splitbusvanatic]

Alright Trev.
How are things.
I'm in Mayo meself.
I was on the old Type2Ireland site a fair bit a few years ago.
I used to see you on that particular forum.
you're a vagdrivers.net man too aren't ya.

All the best with the conversion.

Here's my own thread I finally started.

http://vwkd.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=25824&highlight=&sid=5814d2e5bc5abb59e87fd0513d7ce2ad#25824

[trev]

your conversion looks impressive! I'm at the early stages of mine, have been for quite some time now!! Many other projects have gotten in the way

[trev]

it's early days yet but I've made a tentative start to the conversion.

I dropped the healthy 1.8 type4 engine (I must be mad!):



here is is compared to the bare dummy engine:



my jerry-rigged engine hoist:



and the dummy inline engine fitted to the gearbox:



the spare type4 engine support bar I had came in handy, it clears the sump nicely:



and the left side engine mount bracket looks like it's heading in the right direction for a pretty simple rubber mount:



as I said, it's early days yet but it's been on the drawing board for far too long so it has to start somewhere!!

the coolant flange is going to have to be blanked off, it's just too tight to the bulkhead so I'll look into taking a feed for the heater from some other point on the engine. Maybe a "T" piece off another hose?

The starter motor is going to be a stumbling block. I'd appreciate any advice.

[trev]

I've been working on the rear engine mounts. I'm using two diesel vento engine mounts, one each side, they're very big and the rubber is "holed" so is quite soft and pliable. Hopefully they'll absorb most of the vibrations. No pics of that yet but while I'm waiting on parts I've been trying to find a nice location for the radiator.

This is where I've decided to start: in front of the beam, under the cab floor. I reckon I can mount the rad so it's no lower than the beam itself. The hoses will either point downwards and bend 90 degrees towards the back of the van or if I situate the radiator slightly off centre I can have them pointing upwards then 90 degrees towards the back. I'm thinking silicone elbows and stainless pipe the length of the van should do the job. The radiator is from a 1.9D Vento with the scoop from a B3 Passat 1.6TD. The idea is that the scoop will collect air from the front of the van, allow it through the radiator and into the area in front of the beam and between the chassis rails. I'm presuming the scoop will be in a high pressure flow and the area above the rad will be low pressure allowing the air out. There is plenty of headroom above the radiator for a couple of slim fans. The only drawback I can see is that there is a crossmember about two thirds of the way up the rad so the front third of it would vento into the area in front of the cross member. I'll have to hole-saw a couple of holes in the cross member to vent that space to the space in front of the beam.

excuse my bungee cord prototyping system




I've also lined up a "2 litre" 6-rib gearbox to replace the stock 1800 "5-rib" box. Better final drive and fourth gear for low-rev cruising.

[trev]

small bit of progress:

I spent the afternoon yesterday pulling the 1Y engine from the '97 Seat Toledo donor car. 140k miles on the clock, my dad maintained it for the previous owner for years so he knows its history. The timing belt was done 10k miles ago so it'll be good for another few years in my bus. I also picked up ANOTHER radiator to try out, this time from a 1.6TD type25 bus. It's bigger than all the other rads I have and thicker too. It also has a handy bleed screw at the top.



So with the engine on the floor I pulled the bits that I wouldn't be using (circled here) there are a few ports to be blanked off after removal. I'll have to make up a few plates for them.



The oddball flywheel and clutch were pulled and the KEP adapter ring and flywheel were fitted. I had put a new clutch in the van only a few thousand miles ago and thought it would work in the KEP flywheel only to discover that the flywheel only accepts 200mm clutches, the clutch from the van is 205mm. Raging...



So with the engine there and the adapter fitted I hoisted it into position and checked around for clearance. There is about half an inch overhead the tallest parts of the engine but in this case, an inch is as good as a mile!





There are two minor conflicts against the fuel tank bulkhead, the spade terminal on the oil pressure switch touches the firewall but I'll just bend it 90 degrees, the cam cover touches the bracket for the carbon canister so I'm going to drill the spot welds on the bracket and remove it altogether. Other than that it all fits nicely.



I kept the front downpipe from the Toledo, turned it 90 degrees and it's heading in the right direction. It'll need to be cut and adapted to a silencer under the left battery tray. You can also see my prototype left engine mount made from scrap metal. It needs to be braced and properly welded but the position is good...



the popular internet wisdom about the gearbox input shaft is that it has to be shortened by 15mm to accomodate the shallower hole in the diesel engine crankshaft. I was worried that cutting that much off it would be the point of no return in terms of ever putting the original engine back into the van (in case I ever went to sell it on, the prospective owner mightn't fancy the diesel). However, I did my own measuring up and found that 5mm would be enough. By leaving as much length on the shaft as possible it keeps it compatible with the air-cooled engine. I put a chamfer back on the shortened shaft after cutting.



but aside from all that, I discovered a "plug'n'play starter that will work with the lawn mower gearbox and be man enough for the engine: it's from a Skoda Felicia 1.9D, the same VW engine but with a Skoda-sourced gearbox. The bolt pattern, mounting flange, pinion are all a perfect match. The pinion shaft is self-supporting so doesn't rely on the brass bush in the gearbox.

[splitbusvanatic]

Excellent progress there Trev.

[trev]

got a good bit of progress made today. I ditched the type4 stock engine support bar and my lashed-up scrap metal engine mounts, bought some steel and put a bit of thought into the engine mounts.

The engine is double-isolated in the Vento, the engine is rubber mounted to a subframe and the subframe is rubber mounted to the body. So I decided to do the same. I used the rubber bushes and the metal bracket that sits in them and made up the support structure for them. Then two 25x50mm box-section cross-members between the isolated part of the side brackets, shaped to pick up the two diesel engine mounts and clear the sump.

As of tonight it's just tacked together at the corners, it has yet to be welded up, a couple of braces joining the two cross-members are needed and I'm thinking of gusseting the two tighter corners of each of the sub-frames. The right side plate on the engine needs to be braced to somewhere higher up the block too...



right side





left side:

[ElusiveStranger]

That's rather neat.
_________________
The advice you receive on here is worth the paper it's written on.
Your experiences are worth shed loads to others, including the f'ups - live and learn.
Wouldn't YOU rather learn by someone else's mistakes? So would they.

'78 Bay, 2 litre 091 box, EJ20 NA & the ashtray's on the 'right' side.
I don't lean forward for hills any more
Bugger, missed out on "Live fast, die young"

[Splitty#]

Great can't wait for more.
_________________
There's gold in them there orchards.

[Sloride]

Any updates on this? I am about to pull the lawn mower motor out of my 72 to mount an in-line 1.8l gas motor from a golf.
_________________
2007 VW GTI
1972 VW Westfalia

[trev]

I started back to school so spare time has gone out the window. Plus the daily was giving some grief and I've done another few jobs on another few cars

The diesel project is trundling along in the background, I've been collecting parts mostly:

I found a 2 litre bus gearbox so that's the gear ratios sorted
I turned those large steel angles that fix to the body into "U" channels so they're mounted in double shear. Also drilled them out for M10 bolts. Now they're super solid. So much so that I'm considering ditching the centre mount over the gearbox, just letting the engine rest on the subframe and the gearbox nose cone mount. We'll see how well that works.
I sourced a type25 radiator, it's quite big and thick too and it'll go under the floor with a ducted air feed from the front axle. I reckon by taking air from there I'll avoid collecting stones and muck kicked up by the front wheels.
I got a 14" slim fan off ebay for the radiator under the floor to maintain as much ground clearance as possible. I already have half a dozen different radiators and their fans but none of the motors are any lower profile than 4" or so.
I also got a type25 diesel silencer and down pipe that I'll mount to the engine subframe on rubber blocks, like it is in the type25. It's a long and narrow silencer, it'll be mounted sideways across the rear of the van, between the engine and rear bumper. It should be fairly neat.
I also got the proper 200mm clutch to suit the adapter kit from GSF. It's a shame to have to "downgrade" from 215mm to 200mm, especially considering the torque of the engine and the weight of the van but that's all the KEP flywheel will accept to I'll just have to watch the "drag starts" at the traffic lights