Citroen 2.0 HDI Engine Query

[gazmidas]

A quick cheeky query.

I have a citroen xsara 2.0 hdi on a 2000 plate (Dont laugh!!)

anyways, its starting to misfire - or at least something similar. My thoughts are the glow plugs, but I thought they only really affected the starting of the engine?

I am about to go to GSF to buy some new ones, but thought I may ask you lot if you had any ideas.

It basically seems to splutter slightly under load, only for a few seconds and clears. It does however make alot of the diesel / cammy noise which isnt nice. its at low is revs, between 1500 - 2000 when trying to accelerate gently (I am an economy driver!)

it starts ok, I thought the battery maybe getting slightly weak as it doesnt turn as fast as it used to, but its still starts ok.

Slightly confused and not sure what to do.

Any ideas / help much appreciated.

Gareth
_________________
1x Type 2 Vw Camper (1972),
1 x GTM Coupe Kit Car (1968),
1 x Austin Mini (1970),
1 x Sylva Striker Race Car (1995),
1 x Triumph Daytona 675 (2010),
1 x Golf TDI Estate (2001)

[famous phil]

sounds like its the fuel pump to me
or gas recirculater valve 'E,G,R' VALVE, i blank these valves off as it puts exauste gasses back in the engine , i've seen trany's where u can't get your little finger in the inlet ports , due to coke build up ,,,

,could try unpluging the wire to diafram actuator , or the vac pipe to stop E,G,R valve from opening ,, try thic first should be on scutle panel ,

would not think it'll be glow plugs ,
a friend had one do somet like your's, head was porous letting water in , dont think your's will be like this as it was only on ones that were from 1998 , new type of head ,

[Youthy Giblets!!!]

FIL; would you advise to block off the egr on my golf stop it getting choked up???
_________________
i really need to start working on my wedgey again!!!

[famous phil]

you could try it , when cold they run much better ,, who in the right mind thought of putting exhauste fumes back in the engine , if you start engine cold and it runs lumpy , undo egr vac pipe then it goes smoooooth

[gazmidas]

Ok, I shall have a look and see if i can see this EGR valve before I leave work today! fingers crossed thats the error message.

My new plan is to buy lots of sensors from GSF before I leave work, then plug the car into a friends diagnostics box when i get home. Fingers crossed I will then have purchased the right sensor and will be able to change it and get a refund on the ones i dont use.

This morning the Engine Management light has now come on and the rev range i can use is decreasing the more I use the car. Unfortunately its 26 Miles to home, so will have to risk it, hoping it wont do any damage. I really dont like the cammy / diesel noise that it makes - is it normal? sounds very harsh.

Can anyone describe where this EGR Valve is so i dont have to scrabble around in the dark too long after work?
_________________
1x Type 2 Vw Camper (1972),
1 x GTM Coupe Kit Car (1968),
1 x Austin Mini (1970),
1 x Sylva Striker Race Car (1995),
1 x Triumph Daytona 675 (2010),
1 x Golf TDI Estate (2001)

[gazmidas]

ok,

Update time - there are no error codes, even though the engine management light came on today.

Am thinking it may be the EGR Valve - can anyone help me locate this and suggest how to blank it off?

Thanks
Gareth
_________________
1x Type 2 Vw Camper (1972),
1 x GTM Coupe Kit Car (1968),
1 x Austin Mini (1970),
1 x Sylva Striker Race Car (1995),
1 x Triumph Daytona 675 (2010),
1 x Golf TDI Estate (2001)

[famous phil]

this sounds a bit strange ,,EGR valve control unit is normaly on the bulkhead on peugeots , with two 6mm rubber vac pipes + 2 wires going to it , small enough to fit in a cup , the EGR valve is in part of the exhaust manifold , not that easy to get to , even in the light of day ,
i'd try undoing one of the ruber pipes , on the control unit , should just pull off , then start engine to see if any better ,
just had a word with my brather that works with peugeots every day and he says , it could also be a fuel problem , best to have it pluged in to diagnostic box

ecu warning may have gone into ' limp mode ' slow just to get you home , thats what some vehicles do

[gazmidas]

Hello,

I have seen the EGR control unit then. I have unplugged it and driven for about 15 miles and it didnt cure the problem.

is how i feel

I have borrowed the diagnostics box and will keep it plugged in whilst driving to work tomorrow - to see if any errors appear whilst driving.

If i cant see an issue, i will remove / blank the egr valve over the weekend.
_________________
1x Type 2 Vw Camper (1972),
1 x GTM Coupe Kit Car (1968),
1 x Austin Mini (1970),
1 x Sylva Striker Race Car (1995),
1 x Triumph Daytona 675 (2010),
1 x Golf TDI Estate (2001)

[famous phil]

for piece of mind just check your crank pulley , nown to fail ,
_________________
Auto Union Munga Jeep ,T4 2.4td , T4 2.5tdi ,Mercedes S Class on LPG , 66 splity deluxe , GP mk1, 3 type 25s 1 with 1.9dt pug engine + 1 with N/A pug engine ,,there are 6 t25s with pug power in Darlington

[el_nino]

hi gazmidas ,

i'm a citroën technician and the problem you describe ar actualy believe it or not quite non specific. it could be alot of things

first of all , its NOT recommended to just blank off your EGR valve, with older engines it shouldnt be much of a problem but the new ones just wont run without exhaust gass in the inlet manifold ... Also, the chances of that being your problem are quite slim so if i where you i'd keep that route for very last.

second, has your distribution belt been changed lately ? Some HDI siesel pumps are NOT equiped with a blocking flange so when changing the belt , chances that you misplace the dieselpump by a tooth or 2 are very real , this is not dramaticly but get it sorted out as quickly as possible.

If you dont get error codes when hooked up to a PC chances are that you fueled up with poor quality diesel , diesel refinement envolves alot of water , the poorer quality the diesel is, the more water percentage is in your diesel. That aside , the real problem with this situation is that you get alot more metal particles from all the pipes the diesel runs to before it gets in your car, these particles are small enoug to glimp trough the diesel filter but large enough to cause havoc wit the dieselpump / injectors / valves / valve sitings. To check this is realy easy, drain a BIT of diesel from the filter housinng , open up the filter and if this is the problem there should be sparkling metals particles on the bottom of the filterhousing (near the drain tap usualy) , if this is so, dont take chances and have your injectors checked out at a diesel specialist , they should also be able to figure out weather or not there is a problem wit the pump , it should be delivering about 1150 BAR of presure give or take at its peak , if this is lower then 1000, your in trouble .. i STRONGLY suspect that this is your problem , quite common amongst economic drivers , for the few P's its more, fuel op with known brands, shell, texaco, ...

Also, try another mass airflow sensor , altough this SHOULD pop up on the computer , try one from a mate or something , anyway its not difficult to mount and not that expensive. These MAS's die for no aparent reason what so ever , sometimes never, sometimes after just 2000 miles or so

The last thing i can think of could be an extremely dirty oil / air filter , if you drive it for short distances for a long period of time oil deteriorates very quicky and i have seen oil turned into glue-ish paste because of drivers not using there engines properly ...

Keep us updated tough, quite curious
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If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts

[gazmidas]

Wow - thanks for all those hints and tips! lots of things to check.

The car has been serviced by myself within the last 1000miles, so I am confident its nothing to do with the Oil, filters etc. It wasnt due a cambelt and the auxillary belt looks fine - so i have not replaced these.

Today I went for a run and put in some injector cleaner, in the diesel and also in the fuel filter - no change.
No visible metal paricals are in the fuel either.

I did however manage to get an error code to display on the diagnostics box. It said the engine speed sensor.... which to me means the crank sensor??

It did clear the error but the hesitation / misfire is still present. However the fault did say it was intermittent.

its all getting a bit much! I went out and brought a £250 Mini today to use as a run about - just incase running the xsara was doing any damage!

thinking about it, i should have just spent the £250 getting a specialist to look at it.

I am not willing to start changing sensors randomly, especially the crank sensor - as it is main dealer only.

hmmmm

I shakk look at the fuel pressure on the diagnostics box 2moro.

Oh, thinking about it the injectors on the diagnostics box read very funny readings! some have positive and others negative readings... Which doesnt seem right to me, but i am not a trained mechanic!

Shall ask the Diagnostics Box owner tomorrow.

Thanks for the advise, any more help is appreciated.

Gareth
_________________
1x Type 2 Vw Camper (1972),
1 x GTM Coupe Kit Car (1968),
1 x Austin Mini (1970),
1 x Sylva Striker Race Car (1995),
1 x Triumph Daytona 675 (2010),
1 x Golf TDI Estate (2001)

[gazmidas]

Evening,

The fuel pressure reads around 800 Bar at the most, when revving around 4k.

Looks like that may be the issue, and an expensive one to!!

Also, would explain why no faults are being issue>>?

Thanks
Gareth
_________________
1x Type 2 Vw Camper (1972),
1 x GTM Coupe Kit Car (1968),
1 x Austin Mini (1970),
1 x Sylva Striker Race Car (1995),
1 x Triumph Daytona 675 (2010),
1 x Golf TDI Estate (2001)