Brakes...........perhaps a sticky??!!

[smartdriver]

Hi there you all,

The search for my "splitty" is progressing steadily.
Next week i'm checking 2.
I met a guy who's importing them from Brazil, and there good!
Some rust and very little welding to do.

But to get back on topic, brakes!

I've read Cleverchaps story and got seriously injured with the drop my jaw made
If he brakes hard, his bus will stand on the front-end
I pm-ed him this weekend and asked what he did to start with and if he could help me out.
The keyparts he made himself, like the calipermounts, the rest was of the shelf parts from various Porsches.

He gave me a hint on where to start, thats the front beam from a T2 '69/'71 Baywindow, they use the ball joints and with disk spindles you have a great base on were to start.

What i would like to see from you all is, what kind of brakes do you use and how did you obtain various parts, servo assisted or not, what specific parts used etc....
Pics would be great in assisting your comments

Thanks in advance.

Paul
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convertin' a VW T2 t1 '69 15 window "splitty" into a daily driver, to be continued.......

[richbaker78]

I run porsceh 928 S4 (radial mount) calipers on my bay with the 944 s2 servo and master cylinder. before i upgraded to 928s I used 944 s2 brakes which are now on JPs bay (these are the same caliper as 944 Turbo Mo30 option i believe).

Once the hub is sorted you can pretty much swop between brakes to your hearts content as all 5x130 brakes will fit over and you just change the offset of the plate - my next upgrade will prob be to the boxster monoblocks - essentially the same as the 928 s4s but made in one pice ratehr than two. anyway...I digress....

Spindles - the 67-69 drum brake spindle lends it self to conversions as it has 4 mounting bolts for an adaptor. This is what I used.

Hubs - the 944 s2 hubs are alloy and easily machined (and bonus very light!) I machined this to accept the larger bay oil seal and also a larger back bearing (i got from a bearing shop by measuring the spindle diameter and the max size race i could use) - in the end I couldnt achieve both in one bearing so i sleeved the spindle. The other bearing i believe is a satndard either VW or porsche part (sorry its been a long time!)

I then extended the oil seal top hat - this is the bit on the spindle that the oil seal runs on - this acted as a spacer to push the hub out about 10mm on the spindle and allow clearance for the 10mm caliper adaptor. I used the pinch nut from the porsche to keep this all together as its thinner and you can then get the grease caps on. i drilled and filed the cap to accept the bay speedo cable.

I use the correct discs for the caliper so i can buy them off the shelf in future- so for 944 s2 calipers I used the 944 s2 discs & 928 s4 i used the 928 s4 discs. (this has other bonuses as you keep all the porsche stuff in standard layout- see below)

Adaptor - this is easy once you have your hubs on - i made mine in MDF first for the 944s2 - I then used 10mm plate drilled and secured to the spindle - then using the cnetre line on the caliper on the centre of the disc i shimmed this out until it was correctly positioned - once sorted I got this machined in one piece.

i cheated with the s4 conversion becasue i found an adaptor to put the brakes on a porsceh 944 s2 as an upgrade - i bought them to save work - but not wanting to run adaptor on adaptor i bolted em together and got em made in one piece. Then i sold the adaptors again

I think that should cover it - I dont have many detailed pics but ill see what I can dig up when im back home.....maybe JP has some of my old set up on his van.

edit: its been a long time since I did the above so without pulling my brakes apart i cant be 100% - but you should get the gist of what to do.
Also I forgot about the servo:
Again i used the 944 s2 M/C and servo - this is a piggy back set up - the servo is a standard module - fitted to ford escorts we have since found out as well!!! anyway - waht makes it unique to the porsce is the mounting plate - remove this from the back and bin it!!! then it will mount perfectly to your original beam servo plate ( its tight on the chassis rail though). For the master cylinder - this is a duel circuit with reservoir on top - remove reservoir and bin it. I made some small barbed inserts and then linked the two inlets into one pipe - then connect this pipe to the existing bay reservoir. ALl that remains is to make a push rod - again i make a dummmy in threaded bar so I could get the right size then linked it to the existing clevis on the brake pedal. ONce happy I remade this in 15mm bar - drilled and tapped at both ends for adjustment.

Then connect brake pipes and away you go.

[chuggaboom]

[richbaker78]

1990 944 s2 - but i later used a normal 944 one as they are the same. Escort was a Mk4 - i think JP may still have a servo for sale??

also got this pic of the parts i used to do the hub conversion to the van spindle - embarrasingly I cant rememebr what the parts are despite them being my own design!!!!

The middle are the inner bearing sleeves to make the correct bearing for the hub, fit over the spindle.

The top is a spacer - you remove the existing oil seal ring on the spindle and replace with this one...and the big ring is anyones guess......JP - can you rememebr???!!!


still looking for other pics.

[jp]

Pretty sure the big one is just a spacer that sits behind bearing.

I did draw a diagram of how it all sat together along with the part numbers for the bearings and dimensions of the machined bits above.... I put it in a safe place
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1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT

[smartdriver]

Hi there richbaker 78 and JP,

Your efforts are much apreciated!
I don't understand half of it, but i'm trying to do so.

I' think i'll start with Harry harpic's Bay frontbeam and convert to balljoint spindles.

Servo's come from:
VW; Golf MK 2
Ford; Escort MK 4

How do you get hold of Porsche parts, from the scapyard or secondhand from Ebay or new from a Porsche dealer?

Most people use vented discs in front, what about the rear of the vehicle?
Discs also, vented or not or are the drums capable in doing their job?

@ JP,
Put it in a safe place, mhh where did i hear that before
O yea, that was my wife saying that she cleaned up the mess in the office!
That is also known as: Archived permanently! :smt040

It would be great if you get that drawing up here on the board.
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convertin' a VW T2 t1 '69 15 window "splitty" into a daily driver, to be continued.......

[richbaker78]

youll find it easier with ball joint 67-69 spindles than later bay ones as the mount lugs limit you brake location options on the later ones and dont look as 'factory'.

porsche parts- lots crop up on the vw forums, porsche forums, ebay, scrapyard....and there are some specialist breakers like Porschapart. you need to pretend you have a porsche tho or they will tell you it wont fit etc. Never tried a main dealer - but I suspect they will laugh in your face

On the back I have installed the complete wide alloy trailing arm set up from the 944 s2 (again!) which means the brakes are standard - 4 pot brembos with vented discs - its easier than you think and you can even use standard Vw driveshafts....albeit rare ones!

For this i used - 944 s2 trailing arm, home made spacers, s2 shocks on custom mounts (i also have air suspension on mine), modified VW spring plates, custom handbrake cable and lever (altough not 100% neccesary) adn the clevis mouonts from the 944 torsion tube (you need to buy whole tube and cut them off yourself)

i can do more detail when you get there but heres something to look at (ignore the airbag mountings they arent neccesary):





and some of the front....928 s4 calipers all trial fitted - note i also used a weedeater narrowed beam to narrow the track as the conversion does widen things a bit.


3 brakes...left - 928 s4, middle 944 s2, right pathetic bay window one!



ill try and find some of the adaptor plates for the calipers.

[jp]

You'll wanna make some of these too which fit between the spring plate and alloy arm !



Confused

I think you should strip all yours down again rich and do a nice photo filled how to
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1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT

[smartdriver]

Alright, Tech mods and upgrades.
It suits me fine!

This is what a bloke in the Netherlands did, he's a "stock as possible" nutter.


He used;
Porsche 944 hubs
Porsche 944 discs
Porsche Boxter rear calipers (first type Boxter)
Bearing spacerkit
New wheel bearings
New (homemade) caliper mounts


This spindle should be the same as a T2a (first batch of Bay's?!) although this is a link-kingpin, the stub should be the same!

The homemade calipermount, very simple indeed!


The rims needed some shaving of some of the welds because the rims couldn't move/turn freely.
It set him back 500 euro's for the calipers and 85 euro's for the discpads, all original new Porsche items.
I don't know what the rest cost him.

Paul
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convertin' a VW T2 t1 '69 15 window "splitty" into a daily driver, to be continued.......

[richbaker78]

now i can see the pics....ill delete my other comments!
The adaptor is pretty much the same as mine.

top are the mock ups.

i try and use as many stock parts as possible on all mods so I can always get parts of the shelf.....just as long as i can rememebr what came from which car!!!