Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 822 Location: Darlington
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: later TDi engines bolt pattern
Later 1.9TDi bell housing bolt dimensions change , some later TDi engines don't fit the T25 gearbox When did these change ?
Would these later engines have the same fixings as some older engines like the 2.4 five cylinder & 2.5 V6TDi engines ? _________________ Auto Union Munga Jeep ,T4 2.4td , T4 2.5tdi ,Mercedes S Class on LPG , 66 splity deluxe , GP mk1, 3 type 25s 1 with 1.9dt pug engine + 1 with N/A pug engine ,,there are 6 t25s with pug power in Darlington
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 861 Location: chesterfield derbyshire
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject:
i belive they changed the crankcase and thus the stud pattern when the vw a4 platform came out (the reason the alloy sump was introduced was to stiffen the crankcase to reduce flex with extra power) so about 1998. So that includes the last of the last vp pump frankinstien engines (alh) with the new pd style bottom end and old style external injectors and then the all new pd engines about 1999/2000.
Dont know about interchangability of the pd style engine on to other gearboxes as i've never bother with them as there a bit naff in my opinion, loads of people i know who have run standard cars with them in have had loads of problems with them mainly external parts though i.e. turbos, injectors, wiring looms, fuel pumps, sensors, fractured turbo oil pipes, engine mounts snapping off!!! clutches failing etc plus general oil leaks and head gasket faults. for that reason i've alway stayed clear and stuck with the old faithful 1z/ahu & afn motors _________________ 1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 822 Location: Darlington
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject:
that adds up , while searching for a gearbox for a friends TDi ( PD ) Passat I found a petrol box that looked to have the same later bolt pattern and just thought could they be the same as the 2.4D , I checked the ratio of both in top Petrol= 3.25 TDi= 2.50 , _________________ Auto Union Munga Jeep ,T4 2.4td , T4 2.5tdi ,Mercedes S Class on LPG , 66 splity deluxe , GP mk1, 3 type 25s 1 with 1.9dt pug engine + 1 with N/A pug engine ,,there are 6 t25s with pug power in Darlington
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 1984 Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject:
So would the bolt pattern on an avg engine be different? I quite fancy dropping the engine out of my passat into my bus in the future as it does great mpg goes great and loves waste chip fat
Avg = 1999 110bhp non pd _________________ 1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 822 Location: Darlington
Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject:
, I think someone might have there wires crossed , I was told a ( golf )1,6D/1.9tdi engine will fit to a ( B5 model ) Passat 2.0TDi box , the gearbox looks the same as whats needed for the PASSAT MK6 TDI AWX ENGINE , found this info on another forum
the VR6 uses a different bolt pattern but this VR6 pattern is the same as the 5 cyclinder bolt pattern.
The Audi transmissions like that used in the A5 (b5 platform) have multipattern bell housings and then they use spacers if necessary. For instance a VR6 (yes VR6 not v6) can be bolted to and Audi A4 transmission with a factory spacer.
+ The VR6 does not share the exact same bolt pattern as the 5 cylinder if you consider the orientation of the engine, however a factory adapter is available that adapts the VR6 to a V6 bolt pattern which will bolt up to any of the B5 gearboxes. The twin turbo engines use a spacer between the engine and gearbox, however the 2.8V6 does not, but the 2.7 and 2.8 share the same bolt pattern.
__________________ _________________ Auto Union Munga Jeep ,T4 2.4td , T4 2.5tdi ,Mercedes S Class on LPG , 66 splity deluxe , GP mk1, 3 type 25s 1 with 1.9dt pug engine + 1 with N/A pug engine ,,there are 6 t25s with pug power in Darlington
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 861 Location: chesterfield derbyshire
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:33 am Post subject:
jp wrote:
So would the bolt pattern on an avg engine be different? I quite fancy dropping the engine out of my passat into my bus in the future as it does great mpg goes great and loves waste chip fat
Avg = 1999 110bhp non pd
your passat afn motor is the old school style dude:D _________________ 1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 1984 Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:17 am Post subject:
I presume AFN and AVG are pretty much the same
Reason I got this was purely because I was told it was the newest dub I could get that would be happy to run on wvo. They recommended steering clear of the PD engines as they were a bit sensitive and would required an additional pump and would require the wvo to be stored in a separate tank rather than using the main tank like I can do with this one.
How do you rate these engines Andrew ?
What's the deal with the immobilizer stuff on these engines? would I need to stick the dash under the seat like I've seen on other TDI conversions! ... do you reckon I would be better off going with a 1z ?
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 861 Location: chesterfield derbyshire
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject:
jp wrote:
I presume AFN and AVG are pretty much the same
Reason I got this was purely because I was told it was the newest dub I could get that would be happy to run on wvo. They recommended steering clear of the PD engines as they were a bit sensitive and would required an additional pump and would require the wvo to be stored in a separate tank rather than using the main tank like I can do with this one.
How do you rate these engines Andrew ?
What's the deal with the immobilizer stuff on these engines? would I need to stick the dash under the seat like I've seen on other TDI conversions! ... do you reckon I would be better off going with a 1z ?
cheers
are you sure it's avg code? my mates got 98 a4 110tdi and its a afn motor for defo and i took a vnt turbo some bigger injector and pump of a t reg passat in the scrapyard a few months since and that was a afn motor .
if it is the afn motor it's basically a factory tuned up 1z so it got a bigger injection pump, remaped ecu, bigger injectors and a vnt turbo there like the rest of the old school rotary pump tdi motors bomb proof if looked after only thing that goes wrong with them is the vnt mechanism carbons up if you dont give it any beans.
there are a couple ecu's with the afn motor the early 1 which is same plug as the 1z and afn engine then a later 1 with a split plug one half of the plug goes to the engine and the other half goes to the car, you will have the late style one in your car. i've only ever built looms for the early style ecu but which is immo1 same as 1z this has a seperate key reader box i'm sure the later ecu still has a seperate immo box it's only the later pd engine that needs the clocks to run but even that can be removed by de-activating the immo function in the ecu, i have enquired about this before when doing a 20vt engine conversion into a mk2 golf but i was told it was only available when a remap was being done at the same time so cost £750!!! so i binned the factory management and when down the standalone management route _________________ 1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 1984 Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject:
13 window deluxe wrote:
jp wrote:
I presume AFN and AVG are pretty much the same
Reason I got this was purely because I was told it was the newest dub I could get that would be happy to run on wvo. They recommended steering clear of the PD engines as they were a bit sensitive and would required an additional pump and would require the wvo to be stored in a separate tank rather than using the main tank like I can do with this one.
How do you rate these engines Andrew ?
What's the deal with the immobilizer stuff on these engines? would I need to stick the dash under the seat like I've seen on other TDI conversions! ... do you reckon I would be better off going with a 1z ?
cheers
are you sure it's avg code? my mates got 98 a4 110tdi and its a afn motor for defo and i took a vnt turbo some bigger injector and pump of a t reg passat in the scrapyard a few months since and that was a afn motor .
if it is the afn motor it's basically a factory tuned up 1z so it got a bigger injection pump, remaped ecu, bigger injectors and a vnt turbo there like the rest of the old school rotary pump tdi motors bomb proof if looked after only thing that goes wrong with them is the vnt mechanism carbons up if you dont give it any beans.
there are a couple ecu's with the afn motor the early 1 which is same plug as the 1z and afn engine then a later 1 with a split plug one half of the plug goes to the engine and the other half goes to the car, you will have the late style one in your car. i've only ever built looms for the early style ecu but which is immo1 same as 1z this has a seperate key reader box i'm sure the later ecu still has a seperate immo box it's only the later pd engine that needs the clocks to run but even that can be removed by de-activating the immo function in the ecu, i have enquired about this before when doing a 20vt engine conversion into a mk2 golf but i was told it was only available when a remap was being done at the same time so cost £750!!! so i binned the factory management and when down the standalone management route
Def AVG looking here they were made from 1999 to 2001. I also snapped the cam belt last year so had to strip engine down and sent of head to be recond so I know it's def an AVG... so wonder what the difference is between this and the AFN!
Interesting stuff about the ECU's. I presume the 20vt use the same stud pattern as the afn's do they ? My plan is to get my ford lump in the van and use that to get the cooling sorted and generally shake down the van. I should hopefully get an idea of how much I will use the can then and will probably base this on my decision as to what engine to go for.. so if I decide i'd be happy to use it as my daily I'll go TDI but if it ends up more of a toy thing and weekends away then maybe 20vt... at least if I get a vw adapter it will give me the choice.. assuming they do have same stud pattern.
Reason I got this was purely because I was told it was the newest dub I could get that would be happy to run on wvo. They recommended steering clear of the PD engines as they were a bit sensitive and would required an additional pump and would require the wvo to be stored in a separate tank rather than using the main tank like I can do with this one.
How do you rate these engines Andrew ?
What's the deal with the immobilizer stuff on these engines? would I need to stick the dash under the seat like I've seen on other TDI conversions! ... do you reckon I would be better off going with a 1z ?
cheers
are you sure it's avg code? my mates got 98 a4 110tdi and its a afn motor for defo and i took a vnt turbo some bigger injector and pump of a t reg passat in the scrapyard a few months since and that was a afn motor .
if it is the afn motor it's basically a factory tuned up 1z so it got a bigger injection pump, remaped ecu, bigger injectors and a vnt turbo there like the rest of the old school rotary pump tdi motors bomb proof if looked after only thing that goes wrong with them is the vnt mechanism carbons up if you dont give it any beans.
there are a couple ecu's with the afn motor the early 1 which is same plug as the 1z and afn engine then a later 1 with a split plug one half of the plug goes to the engine and the other half goes to the car, you will have the late style one in your car. i've only ever built looms for the early style ecu but which is immo1 same as 1z this has a seperate key reader box i'm sure the later ecu still has a seperate immo box it's only the later pd engine that needs the clocks to run but even that can be removed by de-activating the immo function in the ecu, i have enquired about this before when doing a 20vt engine conversion into a mk2 golf but i was told it was only available when a remap was being done at the same time so cost £750!!! so i binned the factory management and when down the standalone management route
I have just aquired an AFN engine but no ECU, can you advise me as to what sort of ECU I need to try and abtain? and where I can obtain wiring diags or other info re this?
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 861 Location: chesterfield derbyshire
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject:
just had a quick look on ETKA and your right JP it could be a AVG motor lised as august 1998on (so vw model year99) 110bhp conventional pump type injection, interestingly listed along side of the AFN so i presume AVG was a later version of the AFN? just like the AHU is the later version of the 1z. there also pd engines listed for the same year. you should be alright with that engine the old school TDI's are great if looked after _________________ 1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 861 Location: chesterfield derbyshire
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject:
2435mick wrote:
I have just aquired an AFN engine but no ECU, can you advise me as to what sort of ECU I need to try and abtain? and where I can obtain wiring diags or other info re this?
you need the whole engine bay wiring loom, all sensors that arnt on engine block,glow plug and power control relays, stock afn ecu, immo box and key all matching for starters. So many people buy a engine without all the ancillary parts and your wasting you time and money, the bits you missing to buy seperate are going to cost as much as your engine is worth you can't even go down the mechanical pump route with a afn motor as the vnt turbo is controlled by the vac signal from the ecu _________________ 1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi
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Later 1.9TDi bell housing bolt dimensions change , some later TDi engines don't fit the T25 gearbox When did these change ?
, I think someone might have there wires crossed , I was told a ( golf )1,6D/1.9tdi engine will fit to a ( B5 model ) Passat 2.0TDi box , the gearbox looks the same as whats needed for the PASSAT MK6 TDI AWX ENGINE , found this info on another forum
you can't even go down the mechanical pump route with a afn motor as the vnt turbo is controlled by the vac signal from the ecu
